From Bogotá to Boca | Growing Up With Colombian Parents feat. Juan

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Hello and welcome to Culture In Between, a podcast all about exploring the unique experiences

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of people who grew up in a culture outside of their parents' culture. We are your hosts,

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Alyssa and Brianna, and today we have the honor of interviewing Juan, whose parents are from

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Colombia. Thank you so much for joining us, Juan. Thank you for having me. Brianna, can

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you tell me a little bit about how you and Juan know each other? Yeah, so Juan and I met during

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our undergraduate years at a university called Stetson University in central Florida. Both

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of us were studying music, specifically voice, and yeah, we're so excited to kind of catch

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back up today and talk about a bit of a different topic that I don't think we've discussed before.

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With that, we'd like to ask Juan if he can just briefly introduce himself. Yeah, so hi everyone.

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Nice to be here. So yeah, my name is Juan. I studied with Brianna as she mentioned at Stetson

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University. We sang together, we did operas together. I watched her be a star and shine

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for the masses, you know, all that stuff. I paid him to say that. Yeah. But yeah, so I

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was born in Bogota, Colombia, and came to the US when I was very young. years old or something.

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So I was like really raised in the US in Florida. And I have several musicians in my family.

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So I just kind of always wanted to do that. I always knew I wanted to do that. So I've

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been studying music, I got my bachelor's and my master's in it. And I'm still performing

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to this day, but also doing some other work in between getting some other skills. But yeah.

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You were born in Bogota. Have you been back? Or did you go back when you were growing up?

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Did you take trips back there? Can you tell us about that? Yeah, so I actually didn't go

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back until I was a, I believe a senior in high school or junior or senior, something like

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that. So I'd been a while since I had actually gone back, and I've only gone back once since

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that, so it's been a total of two times. Definitely on my list of... places to just keep going

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back. And there's always something new that you learn about your culture and about yourself

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when you're back in the country where you were born. So I think I 100 percent want to do more

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trips, but not as much as I've wanted to. Yeah, I think we can say the same about us going

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to Jamaica. We have only gone a handful of times. And sometimes when I was a baby, I don't even

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remember. So when you go back to Bogota, like, are you there as a tourist or are you there?

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Kind of like when we go back to Jamaica, it's like we're in the we're involved. You know,

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we're with the people. That's kind of, yeah, is that kind of how it is for you? Yeah, definitely

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not tourists. It's definitely with my family, my immediate family, visiting old family friends.

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And it's something really interesting about growing up as an immigrant is that you see

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people around you like, oh, my parents' neighborhood is right down this corner. And you can't really

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relate, but then you're back over there. And it's like, it's really like right down that

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corner, but like all the way over there. And then they're running, like there was this one

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time my dad was running into his like childhood friend who we hadn't seen for like 30 years,

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who still lived on that block. So it's like, it's really interesting going back and having

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that experience that you just don't have, you know, as an immigrant in a newer country for

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your parents. Yeah, I always feel like an appreciation. Like, I was like, this is where we grew up.

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And you're like, wow, it's really cool. And I've experienced that, the things they did

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and... So are most of your family still there? We're kind of spread out. I have a few relatives

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in Florida, like the vast majority of them are in Florida right now. I think there is a few

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like cousins and like my all my both of my grandparents are still in Florida. My surviving grandparents.

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So sorry, did I say Florida? I meant Columbia.

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I had a feeling I was like, I think you meant to say Columbia. Yeah, they're both still in

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Columbia, as well as some extended family. But yeah, pretty spread out though, I would say.

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Okay, that's yeah, it's kind of similar again for us. Pretty much all of our family lives

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in Florida right now. But when our grandparents were alive, on my mom's side, they lived in

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Jamaica. And that's who we would go visit when we went down there. And when you went there

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to Columbia, like, one thing for us was like, we stood out like a sore thumb, like, I don't

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know. They knew immediately, like, oh, Americans, I don't know. Did that happen to you? Or I

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assume you speak Spanish, so the language is not a barrier, right? Like, I'm so... There's

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a little bit of like stage fright, I'll say, because like you'll go and like you'll go to

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like a restaurant or a coffee shop and like, my grammar is not the best and I don't want

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to make a fool out of myself, you know? Yeah. So I'll like, I was in like an airport and

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I was like, you know, I was a Spanish speaking... and I spoke English because I was so embarrassed

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of saying the wrong thing. Oh my gosh. But to that point, I will say there's a balance. There's,

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you know, obviously we're very Americanized. We grew up in this other culture, but you come

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back and there's always the sense of otherness that you feel in America as an immigrant. And

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you come back and part of that is gone as well, in the sense of just existing. Which I found

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really interesting. I was like, you know, I was born there, so I'm a citizen. And I was

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doing some like weird paperwork stuff over there, having to do with my citizenship. And I was

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just in this random line, in this random government building with all these people. And I was like,

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this is the most comfortable. I've been in the setting, just existing as a person, just being

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here and not worrying about how others perceive me. And I looked around and it's because like...

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you know, a lot of people just like looked like me and acted like me and I'm speaking Spanish.

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So it was really interesting to have that experience and to have that otherness kind of taken away

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in some ways too. Awesome. That's really cool. Yeah, that's really interesting. I'd like to

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say I felt that before, but I mean there is a certain feeling of like a sense of home when

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we've been to Jamaica, at least that I feel of like, oh, this is where my parents are from.

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This is where my grandparents, my roots are. But on the flip side of that, just going and

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seeing like my cousin there and some other family and family friends, they do have a tendency

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to still make you feel very American though, and you know, and kind of point out all the

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ways that you're very much not Jamaican. So at the same time, whenever I go there, that's

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like the most American I ever feel. Because when I'm in America, I'm like, oh, no, I'm

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Jamaican. And then when I'm there, everyone's pointing out how different we are. So, did

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you have any sense of that when you visited Bogota again? Yes, and actually we were at

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this like show, I don't know how else to describe it, but it was like a show, like one of those

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like amusement parks where they do like horse shows and that kind of thing. And the guy was

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asking everyone, oh, where is everyone from? And my cousin takes the microphone and says,

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he's from America. Like, everyone looked at me and like, I immediately was like, oh, I

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really am not from here. So they make sure to let me know in some ways. So yes, I do feel

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that. It's so true. Yeah, in Jamaica, people kind of just like... would stare at us sometimes.

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And I mean, there's nothing worse than just having people stare at you, like you're like

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some weird animal or something. And our uncle would tell us like, oh yeah, they can tell

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you're American, like just from like the shade of your skin and all kinds of things. It was

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crazy. And do you think like part of it like has to do with like clothing? Because that's

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something that's noticed in other countries. So, going back to like your upbringing now

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in Boca in Florida, Like you said, you felt so at ease when you were in Colombia, because

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you were around people who looked like you and were speaking Spanish. How was it growing up

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in Boca? Because Boca is still in South Florida, but it's not Miami. So was there a big Hispanic

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community around you? Like when you were in school, did you have other kids who looked

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like you or had a similar background? What was that like? So I... I think it's really interesting

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because I think South Florida has a huge concentration of Latin American immigrants, and or immigrants

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who come from Latin America and you know grow up in the states and all that kind of stuff.

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There's a fair amount, but my parents were the kind of parents that they would move to like

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a really bad place to get me into a really good school, if you know what I mean, like you know

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to stay in that district. So I was around a lot of like American-born, like white people

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basically, like people from this country. So though I had like a fair amount of Latinos

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around me, Latinas around me, I really felt like my culture was something I had to kind

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of push down in some ways. I couldn't be too much of it. I had to dilute it in some ways.

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Yeah, assimilate. There we go. That's the word I was looking for. And I really felt that especially.

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in Palm Beach County and Boca Raton, West Palm Beach, and those areas. And it's because I

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figured, like you said, Boca is still part of South Florida, so I just, and us growing up

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in Miami, I think we almost got spoiled. It's because almost more people speak Spanish than

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English, especially where we were. So it's like, I just figured South Florida, everywhere in

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South Florida is just kind of like that. But it's just really interesting to hear that.

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Yeah, and it's like, I think part of it, Oh my gosh, I just completely lost the thought

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I had going. You're fine, you're totally fine. It happens all the time. If it comes back to

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you. Yeah, I'll just snap just so you can... There you go. Wait, it's back. Yeah. No worries.

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No, but yeah, I was just going to add on to that. I've been to your house before. I don't

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know if you moved or whatever, but I've been to your house before in Boca and that's one

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of the only times I think I've really been to Boca. It's like one of those places that we

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kind of passed through growing up in Miami, but you don't really stop. And I remember like

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kind of looking around or like every time I have been going through Boca, I've kind of

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noticed that it's like, okay, it's, yeah, it's, it's like interesting. It's like not. It still

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has that South Florida flavor, but it is definitely getting more into that West Palm Beach. Also

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in the performing arts, like Brannet, I'm sure you feel this too, that you go into the performing

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arts, I went to a performing arts high school, and there are people who, very rich people,

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who pass up on their private schools to get into that school. And so there, you really

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feel really like that. rich kind of like norm of, oh, I can, I have this allowance of $500

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a week or that kind of thing. Like where you really feel like that, oh, why am I not like

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that? You know, why am I not like these people? Or you really feel this need to assimilate

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into that. A lot of my friend groups at the time are white people. So really interesting

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to think about because like, yeah, you have Miami and you have this big collection of...

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Caribbean, Latin American people. And then you go a little bit, like even still in the South

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Florida. And yeah, you have this big range. Speaking of allowance, that just made me think,

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I think I asked my mom for an allowance. I did go to a school that was like, it was predominantly

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white, I think when I was in elementary school. People got allowances there and I asked my

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mom for allowance and she looked at me and was like, do you work? She was like, do you earn

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money in this house? Allowance? She looked at me like I was crazy. And so I was like, okay,

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that's, yeah. I'm allowing you to stay under this roof. Yeah, basically. Exactly. So I don't

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know if you've had similar experiences, but that was my mom's experience. And I was like,

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well, Stephen gets an allowance. How come I? Yeah. Not happening. No. So how did your parents

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choose to move to Boca? Because like we said, I mean, Miami is not. far, just like around

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45 minutes away. Why Boca? Why do you think they chose that area? Yeah. So, I mean, it's

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kind of back to what I was saying before, you know, it's all about the schools. And I think

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that's really how they planned a lot of their moves, um, was around my education and making

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sure I, I was getting the best, like one time I remember this middle school that I was going

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to enroll in that was, that I was zoned for the principal. was mentioning something about

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bullying, saying like, oh, it's your responsibility to fix the relationships with your fellow student

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body. Like, we don't have anything to do with that. And my mom was like, huh? Like, what?

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Like, that's not how you handle that or address that to parents in any way. And so I remember

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we like went to another school and like actually moved so that I could be like, actually it

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was a private school. I went to a private Catholic school for a year for that reason, because

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the zoning doesn't matter for the private schools in the way it does for the public ones. So

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yeah, and they really planned a lot of the moving that because we moved a lot as when I was a

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kid. And so that was really all planned with that education and making sure you yeah, you

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had the right education and we're in the right environment seemed to be a high priority. And

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do you have any siblings or is it? No, only two. Gotcha. Yeah, I was about to say, I think

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that also kind of plays into all of this, is that you are an only child. So, I mean, I think

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your parents felt compelled to do that for you. And also, just from my own experience having

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a sister, it is a bit easier to be like a child of immigrants when you have someone else you

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can relate to about that, and relate to your exact situation as well. Like, you know, went

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to the same schools as you, and maybe has met the same types of people. So, yeah, it must

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have been different just being you. That's awesome though that they prioritize that, I think.

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That's great that they tried. Yeah. But like more to that point, it's really interesting

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because it's like I think about it now and I'm like, I think that's why it was so easy for

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me to lose my culture as a kid. Because that's something I was really, like when I was growing

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up and I was really like, when I finally moved out on my own and kind of was studying, I was

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really adamant about finding it again and finding the music and that connection. to people who

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have similar experiences. And as an only child, it's so easy to lose that and be swayed by

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people around you. I actually didn't even make that connection until you just mentioned it.

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Yeah, no, that's understandable. I mean, Alyssa and I kind of... always sit not to make you

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feel bad. But Alyssa and I are always like, we're always like, oh, what would we do without

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each other? Because we have crazy Jamaican parents and just the crazy Jamaican upbringing. So

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it's just like, I can't imagine not having her to talk to you about certain things. It normalizes

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some things, I guess. It wasn't until I moved out of, I went to college and lived with people

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outside of my house. And I was like, oh, I did things that were kind of different or I pronounced

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things.

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certain way. And I was like, oh, okay. And so yeah, that was kind of interesting. Yeah, certain

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phrases and stuff. Okay, cool. Just us.

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But were there certain things that your parents really made sure to pass on to you from their

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culture while you were growing up? Yeah. Definitely the language. I mean, I can probably think

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of maybe one or two conversations in my entire lifetime I had with my father in English. You

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know? Like, really, like, I came home and it was just Spanish. And I really, I appreciate

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my parents so much for that because it's like... Now I get to pass this tongue on. And it's

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so important in terms of connecting with my culture again, and that need that I found later

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on to connect with it. You know, it's been something I was really grateful that they ingrained in

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me. Yeah. And I feel like, I mean, because I've seen both sides where some parents intentionally

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don't actually teach their... kids the language because they want them to assimilate even more.

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But I feel like it's almost a disservice and it's harder. Because if you do want to go back

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to Colombia, like you wouldn't be able to speak the language, you know, and there's that disconnect.

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So I think that's great that they, yeah, taught that to you. And it's just something I've always

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wanted to learn. One of these days I will do it. But that's amazing, though, because I do

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think, you know, knowing the language is so important. Yeah. Because of the culture. And,

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you know, like you think about, like, a grandparent who, like, especially my grandparents, who

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are still in Colombia. haven't learned any English. It's like, I couldn't imagine, I'm sure other

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immigrant kids feel this way too, that they can't communicate with some of their family

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members the way they want to, because they just don't know the tongue. And I'm glad I have

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that blessing. Yeah, another girl we interviewed kind of mentioned the same thing that like,

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she wouldn't be able to talk to her grandma. And I just never thought of it from that perspective,

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because even though our parents have accents, it's not same language with so, yeah, I was

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like, wow, yeah. the older generation, you would not be able to... And it just makes it so you

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can just connect with them a lot quicker. That's awesome. Yeah. And I just... I mean, this is

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kind of different, but just having a thought about how Alyssa was saying that she wishes

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we... She knew Spanish. Yeah, I feel the same way just from growing up in Miami and Spanish

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is such an important language there. I've always felt like that left a little bit of a disconnect

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for me from my own hometown. It's because I didn't know Spanish. I always felt like...

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I don't fully belong in the place where I actually grew up because there's like a whole population

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that doesn't speak English that well that I can't even connect to where I grew up. So yeah,

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it's kind of a different way of looking at it. And I feel like when you can speak somebody's

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language, there's this... I mentioned this in another interview, but there's this YouTuber

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guy we watch who speaks... white guy who speaks Chinese. Yes, I've seen this guy. Do you know

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him? It's wild. He's crazy, right? Well, he speaks a ton of languages now, but he's mainly

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known for... speaking Chinese, but yeah, and then you just see their face, like when, you

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know, he acts like he doesn't know the language, and immediately, like, you see they're like,

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oh, and they're like, like that, like, oh yeah, we have, like, respect for you. I don't know,

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it's just, I can't describe it, but you can see in their eyes how they just like... It's

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respect, but it's also like, oh, I'm like, you see, like, the personality come through more,

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you know? It's like part of that guard where it's like, I'm speaking this language I'm unfamiliar

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with, I'm talking to this person who's, it's finding common ground in some ways. It's really...

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Whenever I see those videos, I just see how they light up. And I'm like, that's so awesome.

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So, going back to going to school and everything, I know that you tried to kind of, again, tape

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down the Colombian-ness of you, but did you experience any kind of othering from other

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students? Or did people ever bring things up that were hurtful? Or just... made you feel

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out of place. Yeah, I mean, especially with Columbia, there's a lot of material for people

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to use, especially with Pablo Escobar and the kind of like drug trafficking that went on

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in the 70s and 80s. And that was always like a joke, either always like jokes and puns and

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twists on my name and that kind of thing, which I like took in good spirits and I was never

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really like hurt by them. But it was definitely like, this is like I was named after my grandfather.

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And it's like, he was a very respected man in Bogota. And he was, he had a very, he lived

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a very important life. He was very, you know, it's just like, it carries that weight in my

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head for me now. And so thinking about how it was just kind of like a joke to some of people,

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like thinking about it now, I'm like, hmm, you don't, you don't understand where this name

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came from. There is also like. Like I think I would also play into stereotypes as a way

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to like appease people to growing up like I would I would like make the jokes myself or

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I would like just to kind of like Feel that kind of like connection or I don't know friendship

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again Oh, so it's almost like an assimilating bite. Okay, you're like, hey, I know they think

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this about me So I'm just gonna play this kind of room. It's kind of like exactly like right

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with it, even though it a little bit annoying because it's a way of them to just point out

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that you're different, I guess, and that's kind of annoying. Sometimes you just want to be

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like, hey, I'm just here. Yeah. I don't know if you remember this one, but I'm going to

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provide some backstory for our listeners. So anytime you study voice at a university, at

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least at the undergraduate level, you are usually... required, I'll say required, not forced, required

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to be in choir. And so Juan and I were in choir together and our choir went on choir tours

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every year, a choir tour every year. And so we were on this choir tour and we were particularly

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visiting places in the South and we had a stop in Kentucky and we were staying with some...

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People that the school and the venue where we performed had arranged for us. I remember after

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that night we stayed in Kentucky, Juan told us about how the people at his homestay, or

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at least one person at his homestay, felt compelled to bring up... drugs and drug trafficking when

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he found out that Juan was Colombian. So can you tell us how did that make you feel? It

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seemed like when you told us it was kind of in a joking way, but how did that make you

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feel and what was your reaction to that? How do you respond? Well, so like. It wasn't the

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only comment. He also made a comment about his landscaper having the same name as me or something,

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or that I reminded him of his gardener or something like that. Something stereotypical like that.

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And I remember, you know, I was just like, I wasn't even like hurt or offended. I was just

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like, wow, he's actually saying this. You know, this person's actually saying this for real

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and thinking it's appropriate to someone they just met to just talk to them like that. Yeah.

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I found that people... They're like those kind of stereotypes. And I find that people think

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that if they say like, say, they said, oh, yeah, you remind me of my landscaper and he's a very

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hardworking person. Like if it's a positive statement, then it's like, OK to stay. But

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it's like, no, you're still acknowledging that. Like you wouldn't say that about like a white

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person. Be like, oh, yeah, like you remind me of my I don't know. You know, like it's just

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it's just like you wouldn't. You wouldn't go to like a white. And you're like, oh, you remind

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me of my white nanny. You know? Yeah. That's a very, yes, that's a perfect, yeah, a great

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example. If you just didn't grow up like as an immigrant or as some type of different,

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I think any type of minority, you have experienced some type of like someone made you feel different

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or uncomfortable. Like I don't care what minority you are. I feel like if you just haven't gone

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through that, you just can't fathom why is that a bad, I don't know, because I've heard it

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and like, and it's well intentioned to people, but it's like, yeah, it's just like. Sometimes,

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like, wow, interesting. So, yeah, I hear you with that. You gotta just shake it off. I don't

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know. I find when I was younger, I used to get really upset by those things, but now I just

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kind of... If you don't laugh at it, you'll cry at it. And it's just, you gotta just...

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I try to see things from people's perspective and give them the benefit of the doubt and

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just be like, okay, if we're gonna say ignorant things. Yeah, and it's something that has helped

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me confronting those situations and kind of navigating life. I just like... Living in Boston,

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you know, you're... There's this... enormous concentration of schools and people from all

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over the country come to study here. And you just realize people with accents are some of

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the smartest people in the world. They come here to study, to advance what they've already

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learned in their country and to give that to our country, to give it to this American culture.

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And that's the thing. It's like it's such a melting pot. I think the US really is. And

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it's made up of so much contribution. from so many different minorities. And that's something,

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that's just a realization. There are scientists, artists, philosophers who have thick accents

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who are so intelligent. And so I always think about that and I'm like, you cannot take that

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away with an accent, you just can't. Yeah, no, it's so true. I read somewhere and I can't

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remember where I read this quote, but someone was saying that some of these like migrant

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children who are coming here, they can already speak. multiple languages. And people get so

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excited when their kid who grew up in America, like, kind of learns a little bit of Spanish

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or something like that. And there are migrant kids coming here who can already speak two

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or three languages. And we should be celebrating that and viewing them as, wow, look at what

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a contribution they could be instead of looking at them as, I don't know, other. We like to

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kind of also talk about your culture in general on the show. So, I have a few questions about

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just Colombian culture in general. I feel like I don't know enough about it. So can you tell

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us first of all, what are your favorite Colombian foods? Oh my goodness. So I so there is bandeja

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paisa, which is like it can be brunch. It can be like lunch, but typically you don't eat

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for a while after it because it's so carby. It's it there is rice, beans. There is... plantains,

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there's pork rind, sometimes there's arepa, and then sometimes there's like steak, like

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they really throw everything there. But it's like such an amalgamation of different textures

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of foods, and it like, yeah, it's so Colombian. But I have always like gravitated towards the

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Colombian breakfast foods. So obviously, you know, like your coffee, so there are these

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like balls of like. cheese. I don't even know how to describe them, but it's like a dough

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with cheese called buñuelos and they're like fried and you bite into it and it's like this

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just like melty cheese. It's so good. So like the buñuelos, the almohavanas or pan de bonos,

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which are kind of like another cheese bread kind of thing. Arepas, of course, are really

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great, though I will admit. that the Venezuelan arepas are the superior ones. I will wholeheartedly

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admit that, because they really turned it out with those. But yeah, I really like the breakfast

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foods. Yeah, I saw some like Buzzfeed food related video and it was about like Colombian foods.

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All of them involve cheese, and I was like, that is my kind of cuisine right there. I love

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cheese so much that like, anytime you have a cuisine that half the dishes have cheese in

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them, I'm here for it, yeah. That sounds really good. We're going to try out some kind of quick

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questions about other cultural aspects. So, can you tell us, do you have a favorite Colombian

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saying? Kind of a hard one. I'm trying these questions out. You can say skip too if you

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don't. Yeah, we're trying them out. This is great to think, Colombian expressions. So I

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don't know if y'all know, but there's like a different word throughout different Latin American

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countries for like one thing. So like for popcorn, it might be like, oh my gosh, I can't even

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think about the other countries, but like there's like a different word for popcorn.

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Hang on, I almost have to Google this because I need to do it. has a different name for popcorn.

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and I watched this video where they went through

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In Mexico, popcorn is palomitas. In Cuba, it's rositas de maíz. In Chile, it's palomitas or

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cabritas. In Ecuador, it's canguil. But in Colombia, we're used to maispira. So it's like, it really

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is like, I love those parts of like, just like there's one word, there's like one thing, it's

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just like a different name throughout all these different countries. So I always loved that.

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That's funny. Some of them don't even sound similar. No, not at all. Interesting. I did

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not know that. Cool. Yeah, that's very cool. Something about popcorn in particular has to

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be distinguished. Okay, can you tell us who is your favorite Colombian celebrity? It can

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be Colombian-American too. Yeah, I think… So there's a few. Obviously Shakira is like… She

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does a lot for the culture. She brings a lot of the dance and those aspects into it. I really

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love Sofia Vergara too. So charming, so funny, so great. There was someone recently that I

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found out was, ah, yes, did you all watch the new West Side Story? Yes. The actress that

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plays Maria. Rachel Ziegler. Yes, she's Colombian-American and her voice is just divine. She's a great

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actress. And so definitely very proud of that representation. I think those are that. My

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rapid fire question. So to wrap it up, I like to kind of ask maybe about one aspect of Colombian

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culture in this case that you don't like so much, and then what you love the most about

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Colombian culture. Yeah. So something that I'm noticing is being kind of addressed by, you

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know, people in Colombia too, like I'm seeing it more and more is machismo, which is basically

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kind of this hyper masculine way of kind of being, of kind of training young, you know,

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boys or male identifying people, how to act, how to look, how to walk, all that stuff. That

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is one negative thing about the culture that, you know, that it's something that a lot of

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people have trauma that they're, you know, recovering from that they're dealing with as children

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growing up, whether it be from a family member or from an experience within the culture. So

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that's one negative thing, but it is really being addressed. Like I'm noticing more and

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more that Latin American countries, like especially people in like our generation, millennials,

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Gen Z, they're really kind of like tackling these kind of norms head on. So yeah, so just

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kind of like combating those norms. I'm noticing that a lot of the people in the younger generation

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are doing that. A positive thing, I will say, and this is something that I was actually reflecting

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on recently was, there's just the general sense of optimism from Colombian people that I've

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noticed in my experience, and optimism in the face of like hardship, in the face of really

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awful, awful things. There's just this hope and optimism that I've carried through with

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me throughout my life and through challenging times that it's really, it's something that

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I've embraced and it's something that has really helped me a lot. And in terms of kind of navigating

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life and that kind of thing. That's a very... Nice optimistic and positive note to end on.

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So we'd like to thank Juan again for joining us today. It was so interesting to hear about

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his experiences growing up in Florida as a Colombian American. And we hope you will join us in a

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future episode. Thank you again for listening and we'll see you soon. Bye everybody. Bye.

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Thank you again to Juan for joining us today. Who knew there were so many different Spanish

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words for popcorn? That's pretty crazy. It was really interesting to learn about that. It

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was also just so great to hear about his experience growing up in Florida as a Colombian American.

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That was really, really fascinating and I'm so glad we got to share that today. And thank

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you listeners for joining us as well. Stay tuned for future episodes. Have a great week, everyone.

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Bye!