Caribbean Vibes, South American Roots | Growing Up With Guyanese Parents feat. Keshan

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Hello and welcome to Culture In Between, a podcast all about exploring the unique experiences

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of people who grew up in a culture outside of their parents' culture. We are your hosts,

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Alyssa and Brianna, and in today's episode, we are interviewing Kishan, whose parents are

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from Guyana. Thank you, Kishan, for joining us. We're really looking forward to talking

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with you today. Yeah. I don't think I need much more of an intro. I used to live in New York

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for a very long time, which is the Mecca of Guyanese people, so could tell you all about

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it. Nice. And are both your parents from Guyana? Actually, I meant to ask that before. Yeah,

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they both are. Awesome. Awesome. And can you tell us where exactly in Guyana your parents

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are from? Yeah, they're my dad is from Bath Settlement and my mom is from Georgetown. And

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like you said, you grew up in New York. So what part of New York did you grow up in? I believe

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the Guyanese Mecca is in like Queens or something like that. have. Yeah, you nailed it. That's

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exactly it. There's a whole playbook that Guyanese people have to get to the United States and

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it starts with first getting sponsored by someone who already made it. Then you get a job at

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the MTA in New York City, which is just the buses and trains and things like that. And

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then you have your family members co-sign to get a house and boom, now you're in  New York.

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For some reason they all chose Queens. I don't know why, but there's so many Guyanese people

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in New York that they renamed the area from Richmond Hill to Little Guyana. So like they

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actually have a county in New York that's named after Guyanese people. So there's a lot of

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them there. That's where I grew up.  Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, I have a friend who's also Guyanese

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who  their family moved there. They were living in Miami at first and then they moved there.

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So yeah, and then later I found out that,  yeah, that Queen, that part of Queens is like little

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Guyanas. So now I understand. Yeah. Yeah.  It was really fun growing up because when  we

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would go to different events, even if it was random people, there would always be somebody

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who was like, oh, I know you from down the block back in Georgetown. And it would be those weird

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connections and you just bump into them on the street because there's so many of them. That's

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so great. Yeah. We have a somewhat similar situation in terms of there are a lot of Jamaican people

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in Miami  and  like how you were describing the pathway to coming to the U.S. Everyone

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in my family was like sponsored to get here. And  so, yeah, I've heard all about that. So

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I knew somebody that was like  lived here already, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So can you

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tell us a little bit more about that, about growing up  in little Guyana and being surrounded

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by Guyanese culture? Like, what was that like and how has that kind of carried you through

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like to feeling really connected to your culture? Yeah, it didn't feel strange growing up. But

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after I left New York and entered the business world and moved to different states, then I

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started realizing how hilariously strange it was.  growing up,  just in New York, you just

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go to the public school that's in your zip code. So people would play all these address shenanigans

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to try to get people into the best public school. But the one that I went to was the vast majority

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of folks were Guyanese, Trinidadian, Dominican,  all the  native immigrants of Queens. So it

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was actually very rare for me to find somebody who wasn't a first generation or parents were

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first generation or anything else. Everybody was completely fresh off the boat if you want

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to use that term. And growing up, it didn't feel  because everybody just, it just felt

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like kids in high school, kids in middle school, there's the drama, people are dating each other,

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all the things like that.  But when I actually left and  went to other places,  probably the

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biggest thing that's different is there are less parties. Like one thing that people like

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to do is just have like a backyard party where there might be the friend of the week would

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just throw a party and it's just drinks and food in the back and you'd show up to their

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house because we all lived in the same area. And that's how the community stayed connected.

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I remember going to so many family events, cousin events, because like everybody somehow is related

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in some way. So within the community itself, it was just showing up to places, people's

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houses and connecting with people. And that over time has reduced. I don't know why  it

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did, but growing up, it was a lot more common than it was now. And then, know, as soon as

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you leave little guy and all that goes away.  Yeah. Yeah. I feel like he has kind of a,

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you have probably a similar experience to Brandon and me in that like, bring up a Miami. We did

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have a big. Caribbean population and Hispanic population. We were kind of spoiled in that

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way a little bit. Yeah, you can go get Jamaican food down the road here or whatever you want,

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which is kind of nice. I feel like growing up. think a funny thing when my wife and I first

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started dating, we had played this game on our first date where she goes, hey, I bet you can't

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guess what my ethnicity is. And she was obviously Vietnamese. And I was like, oh, yeah, you're

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Vietnamese. And she's like,  what? I can't believe it. You guessed it. And I went, OK, what is

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my ethnicity? And she guessed every single country except for Guyana, because it's such a rare

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place to see. It's a tiny little country in South America. When I told her I was Guyanese,

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she was like, I have never met another soul or even heard of anybody who ever came from

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there. And you don't look Guyanese. I know what you're thinking. I look Indian, but there are

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Indians in Guyana. That kind of brings us along to one of our questions that we typically ask,

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which is, what are typical answers that you get when you have people guess or like, or

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what do they Sri Lankan. Pakistani, Indian, like the ones that are all like light skinned

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brown guy like those  I get, but it really depends on the person. if I'm in the city, one thing

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that would happen to me at times, this is one of my hair is longer and I have like facial

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hair or something, I would have Hispanic grandmas come up to me and ask me for directions in

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Spanish. And I went through seven years of Spanish and never learned a single word. So  I would

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say like, Hey, sorry,  no hablo español.  And they would give me the dirtiest look ever.

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They're like, how dare you not learn your mother tongue? And they just assumed that I was Hispanic.

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So it depends. If you're a Guyanese person, you immediately see me and go, oh yeah, he's

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Guyanese. If you're Indian, you assume that I may be some kind of Indian. If you're Hispanic,

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sometimes they assume that I'm Hispanic, but it really depends on who you are. I mean, I

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personally get the Hispanic thing all the time. Ever since I moved away from Miami. Because

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in Miami, no one really thought that because to be honest, most of the Hispanic people in

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Miami are like white Hispanics. So no one really assumed I was Hispanic, but outside of Miami,

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yeah, people just talk to me in Spanish. They're just like, oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, no.

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If you think of the odds, like if you see someone standing there, what is the odds of them being

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Jamaican or Guyanese? Like, what's the chance? So you just make the assumption, oh yeah, I

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can ask them directions. And does it like bother you when people guessing correctly or maybe...

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Oh, I find it very amusing. I find it very amusing because my entire life growing up, I never

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really knew how to categorize myself. So, you know, when you're going through elementary

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school, middle school, you get the little standardized test and says, which ethnicity are you? This,

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this, this, this or this. And none of them were me. And sometimes I would just guess because

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also my parents never sat me down and explained like, oh, yeah, like, this is where you're

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from. These are the other people. So sometimes I would guess... Pacific Islander, like the

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Pacific Ocean, maybe. Like Hispanic, I guess like my grandfather came from Portugal. Like

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there's like random things that I would just  select and there was no category for me. So

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whenever I would ask people, I'm like, oh, like you get to feel a little bit of like, what

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are  you? Yeah. Oh my gosh. You're hitting like all our wonderful questions, which is great.

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Cause like that is another question we have is like, when you take those standardized tests

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and things is like for us, it's like, okay. specifically would be like Caribbean American,

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I suppose. That's never, it's either like, you know, white, black, there's like million people

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in the Caribbean. Yeah, so it's always like, what do you check? You know, that's something

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we've asked guests a lot is like, what do you feel like checking? Sometimes it kind of depends

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on the day. Yeah, I choose whatever I feel like, essentially. But now I pretty much check the

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other category if that's ever available. And if anybody asks me what I am, I just say I'm

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a West Indian. And I usually close it out, hear Indian and they're like West somewhere in America.

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Okay, cool. Oh my gosh. That is funny. Yes, I love it. He's hitting all our points, is,

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Yeah, cause a lot of, okay, cause sorry, I hope I can jump into this one now, like, so Brandon

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and me are like, we have been so interested in actually having this interview because when

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I hear Guyanese people talk, they have kind of that accent, similar to like a Caribbean

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accent. Right. But geographically located in South America. tell me, are you able to tell

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us a little bit about how, yeah, how that kind of happens and do you guys feel closer to Caribbean?

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Like, I don't know. I just always been curious. we definitely feel Caribbean, like 100 % top

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to down. The culture is Caribbean. Everybody has a crazy accent that sounds hilarious. I

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can't do one because I lost mine years ago because like the New York City school system really

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drills in like you got to speak properly. So I lost that eventually. But I don't know why

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they have that accent. I think it's just something to do with the place that they are. There are

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so many cultures that exist there. There are Asian people there. There are Indians like

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myself. are  African Americans, all different Hispanics are there, but they all speak English.

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So they all have this same tongue that they use to communicate with each other. Guyana

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was a British colony. So like, that's what you learn in school there.  And I think just mixing

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all those cultures together, you get the Caribbean accent, or least the Guyanese accent. Which

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sounds the same, but is distinct from Jamaican, is also distinct  from Trinidadian. How people

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ended up in Guyana?  The full history is not completely clear to me. I know that the Indians

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ended up there when the British had it as a colony. They brought them over as indentured

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servants. I know the Africans ended up there as slaves. The Hispanics, I don't know, they

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might have came from Brazil. A lot of them came from different other colonies in the area.

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But I think people just ended up there because there's not a lot of people. You can kind of

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disappear if you want to. Guyana is the place where Jim Jones was, where hear like Jonestown

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where everyone drank the Kool-Aid. That's where that happened because it's in the middle of

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nowhere  whenever you hear of  uncontacted tribes or people eating cassava in the forest. It's

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in Guyana! Like there are towns and stuff but there's also forests so you kind of just go

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there to disappear. Yeah, it seems like Guyana has a very similar colonial history to like

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most British Caribbean islands that were colonized by the British.  Yeah, similar with Jamaica.

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Like lot of the Indian Jamaicans pretty much came over as indentured servants. And  our

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background is Jamaican Chinese. I don't know if Alyssa told you about that, but  yeah. our

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mom's side of the family is part Chinese and  the Chinese people came as indentured service

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as well.  So, yeah. And that's not surprising to me. Like it makes sense because there are

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so many Asian people in the Caribbean and I'm like, oh yeah, they're just part of the culture.

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So if people end up mixing, it's like, yeah, that's what happens. Yeah.  Yeah, I can tell

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from your reaction that when you hear Chinese Jamaican, you don't even bat an eye, but like

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when I tell people that sometimes you're like, really? Like, you know, they have kind of this

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idea, I think, of what Caribbean's look like and that they don't realize it. that idea is

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though, right? Because like I'm so in tune with the different kinds of countries and people

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that exist in the Caribbean. So I don't know what like the general sense of a Caribbean

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person is. Maybe something with Pirates of the Caribbean? I don't know. Like, who knows? Yeah,

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so when I hear you tell me all those things about Guyana, I'm oh, I'm not surprised that

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all the, know, is kind of a hodgepodge of people like that. I'm trying to remember what the

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population is. We could probably Google it, but I think it's less than a million. And there

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are at least a hundred thousand people in just New York and the other hubs are Orlando and

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Toronto. So the joke is there are more people outside of Guyana who are Guyanese than in

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Guyana itself. Like the goal of being there is to leave Guyana. That's a big thing. Yeah,

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I try to do some research on every country before we do these interviews. And yeah, I was quite

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surprised to hear that it was less than a million people there. That's a lot of people. And they're

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evolving very quick. think the last time, the first time I ever went was when I was really

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young. It was like in 2003 or 2004. And they didn't really have running water or electricity

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in all parts of the place. So my grandparents' house that we stayed at, it's literally on

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stilts. There's a tub on the top of the roof where you get water from. The electricity is

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a generator that sometimes works. So it was really, really old. Like the part I hated the

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most, you have to go to the bathroom in an Owl House. That was ridiculous. That my privilege

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as an American made me not really, really hate that. But then when I went back recently, I

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think it was in mid 2010s, 20s, maybe 15, like 2015. It's completely different. There are

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paved roads, there are houses, there are mansions that you can see. The main town, Georgetown,

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is actually a city now. There's a lot of growth happening there. I don't know why, but it's

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a better now. That was actually going to be my next question, was I was going to ask you

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about if you have visited there and what your experience was like. So like you said,  mean,

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the  lack of running water and all of that, at least when you were younger, when you visited,

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that's not even  as, you know, in Jamaica, we thought that it was like, oh,  we had to deal

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with not having hot water sometimes and the power would go out randomly. And I thought

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that was bad, but... What you had to, what you experienced sounds a little bit  different

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there.  So can you tell us kind of what your impressions were of Guyana? Like, did you feel

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a sense of home? Did you feel like you understood your parents better after seeing how they grew

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up? What was that experience like in that way? Yeah. I definitely understood my dad better

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because he would always tell us stories of like, back in my day, cheese was a luxury. Like he'd

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have all the crazy dad stories. Oh, we used to walk a million miles just to get a drop

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of medicine. It's like, okay.  But when I saw some of the areas that he lived in, like, oh,

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like that's why you guys were so apt to come to United States. Cause the difference in quality

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of life is immense. Like when my parents brought us to the, well, I was born here, but when

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my parents were in this country, they had one goal. it's like, go into the New York education

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system and get a degree. Cause then you don't have to go back to where we came from. And

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I didn't understand why that was so bad until I saw it. I'm like, okay, like there's not

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a lot of opportunity here. Like if you're to get educated, the only option you have is to

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go to Canada or Britain, maybe United States, if you can get in. If you want to join a company,

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there are no companies. Like everyone's farmers or they're sugarcane miners or you're working

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for the government or things like that. So if you wanted robust opportunity, you had to leave.

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So I understood that immediately as soon as I was there and it was just reinforced the

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second time I went at home. I don't know if I felt more at home. because my home was New

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York at that time. I was used to living in a concrete jungle. So going into an actual jungle

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was strange.  It was very odd. I didn't know what to expect. The most horrific experience

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there was dealing with the mosquitoes. So one thing that you must do is you have to have

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to have to sleep under a mosquito net.  If you don't, they will take every drop of blood that

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you have.  One of the nights I had made a mistake, because I'm used to just, you're on a small

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twin bed, the mosquito nets around you, and I roll around when I sleep. I don't sleep comfy

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in the heat. So I roll around the whole night and then I end up bracing my entire side of

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the body against the mosquito net for the whole night. And they proceeded to pick me apart

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for hours. And you know, when you get mosquito bites, they swell up as like a little red lump.

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They're a little itchy. Imagine the whole side of your body being one continuous mosquito

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bite. They are ruthless. And of course, Nobody cared, like I did it, they pointed at me, they

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laughed, go, ha, you didn't realize that you were supposed to stay in the middle. And I'm

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like, oh my God, guys, am I gonna get fevers, flus, blah, blah? Nothing ended up happening,

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but man, it was painful. like that's the, dealing with the environment was so hard. Extremely

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humid, extremely rainy, extreme bugs, extreme weather, extreme plants. The best part about

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it though, were the foods. Like the native Guyanese cuisine is very nice. I grew up eating it,

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but it's just better there because The culture is developing new things as you speak. So you

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get to try like net new items that you never thought before, but they're familiar because

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they use the same ingredients, they use the same products. So you're like, wow, I didn't

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realize you could have this thing. And like, it's awesome. But the bigger item that's awesome

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is that because it's in the tropics and because it's a jungle, you can grow extremely exotic

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fruits. So when I was there, I probably tried 30 or 40 fruits that I've never heard of. It's

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it's and they were all delicious, which was cool things You can't bring back to the US

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either right because my mom has done tried to do that before I got stopped at TSA My dad

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now will always 100 % of the time get stopped at TSA because he keeps over and over trying

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to fruits fish animals meats like things that you know, you're not supposed to bring and

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he's like if you wrap it up in enough garbage right you'll never know And then they know,

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trust me. But now every time we we fly with him, he has to get stopped. Yeah. Yeah, we

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made jokes with my mom about that. Really? Yeah, you're on the bad list there because  she's

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trying to bring in some kind of apple or something and they're like, no, yeah, it was. yeah, I

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get it, though. Like, who knows what crazy bug  that thing that collapses the American economy

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like  from that one. You brought  it.  Oh, my gosh. That's crazy. So what are some of your

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favorite foods to eat in Guyana?  Oh, definitely. My favorite dish  is  a  naan bread that we

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call roti. We actually call it dalpuri because it's  a naan bread with  crushed up, I'm trying

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to figure out the  terms that people would know. Chickpeas is like crushed up chickpeas and

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spices and then another bread and then you cook those all together and then you use it to eat

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pumpkin. And it's like a special kind of pumpkin. that's really sweet, you put shrimps in it.

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And it's just my favorite dish by far. And like the availability of the specific spices and

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fruits and vegetables in Guyana made that so delicious. Like it was as intended. My mom's

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really good at recreating it here, but it was just better over there. So that was my favorite.

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The fruits, man.  Star apples, cassava pones. Like I can't even remember all of the names,

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but they come in so many different shapes and sizes. I think my favorite one was pecans,

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like the nut. If you didn't know, there was a fruit. that that nut gets attached to and

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it's delicious. It's so good. There are pecan  trees everywhere and you just eat the fruit

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and it's awesome. good. Healthy too. Yeah, I thinking about the fruits. People are all very

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skinny. They're all fit because  your  job is to work on a field. So all day you're at the

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field cutting sugar cane, which is really hard. have to reap them and they're essentially bamboo.

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And then you come home and you eat a bunch of dalpuri and pumpkin.  You go to sleep. I've

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heard of roti, but I don't know if it's probably not prepared the same way. I'm curious. It's

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a little different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.  think they have it in Trinidad too. Maybe that's

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what I'm thinking. Yeah.  I can tell you about the great disagreement between Trinidad and

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Guyana. So  those two countries,  they're very, it's very fun. Growing up my entire time, the

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Trinidadian folks were frenemies. Like we're both Caribbean, we're both in the area, but

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we're so similar. It's like, we're better than you.  And the number one disagreement that

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we would always get is, do you call it chicken curry or curry chicken?  And  people will die

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on that debate.  If you bring it up between the Trinidadian flag and Guyana flag, the Guyanese

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are on the chicken curry side and the Trinidadians are on the... curry chicken side. Interesting.

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did not know about that debate, I am also on the curry chicken side. also say curry chicken.

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I'm going to leave this meeting right now. think maybe it's the Indian. I mean, obviously there

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are Indians in Trinidad and Jamaica as well, but I feel like there's so much more in Guyana.

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It's more of a percentage of the population in Guyana. I feel like in India too, it's chicken

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curry. Like it's not curry chicken. I think so. Yeah. So maybe that's the influence there.

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I never got to the bottom of the bay.  I took  the chicken curry side because you know, it's

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just fun. Pick teams,  have fun. Yeah. It's a very fun relationship we have with the Trinidadians

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because we're the same. Like they're so similar. The cultures are just marginally different,

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but we'll pick apart every difference to the nth degree. And it's just hilarious. Did you

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have a lot of friends growing up from like other Caribbean countries and stuff? Oh yeah. you

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talked about this kind of stuff with them? Yeah, all the time. Because my classes in  elementary

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school and middle school were, let's say there were 30 kids, maybe 15 of them were Guyanese,

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Trinidadian, or Surinamese. So  everybody was from the Caribbean. It's an awesome environment

20:32 → 20:36
to go. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's so cool. Because even though there's a big Caribbean

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community in Miami, it's like, I don't know, there's not really necessarily a conglomerate

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all in one place. You know what I mean? It's like we're kind of just spread out. So I don't

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know. I never had that experience of having  a whole bunch of kids in my school being from

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the Caribbean. think  it might be because of New York, because it's so hard to get real

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estate and spread yourself out that in New York you see all of these communities are forming.

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There's the Guyanese one. This is where the Jewish people live. This is where the Dominicans

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live. This is where the people from Honduras live. So you get all these little neighbors

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that might be five blocks, six blocks. Like little Guyana might be maybe nine square blocks

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for all the Guyanese people.  So they're all going to the same schools, they're all going

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to the same places, we're going to the same businesses, so you run into them a lot. And

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just to quickly kind of go back to visiting Guyana, do you still have friends, not friends,

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do you still have family there in Guyana? Yeah, have friends there too. Oh, maybe friends too,

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yeah. Friends? I don't know, I was so young when I I didn't make any friends, but my mom's

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parents are still there, so they're the primary people we go and visit, and a lot of my mom's

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family, like her sisters and things, still in Guyana. But they're usually who we go to visit.

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But my dad has migrated most of his family. Like there's not a lot of people left there.

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So anytime we want to visit them, they're either in Canada or the United States. Yeah. We have

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a similar experience. Do you find that your grandparents intentionally want to stay? Because

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like our grandparents were like, I'm going to be born and die in Jamaica like Dave or Yeah,

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that's why my mom's parents are there. Because they have the passes. They can come to the

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United States. They visit every now and then. But they're just not happy here. because the

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lifestyle is so different. Like they have their own house, they have their own piece of property,

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they grow their fruits, they're getting a pension from Guyana. So they're really just living

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their life in a tropical country. And I'm like, you know what? I don't blame you. It's kind

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of nice.  And when they come to New York, they're kind of just like sitting in a house and like

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the winter is so brutal for them because they never did it before. And they just didn't like

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it. They might have fun in Miami or Florida, but they've never experienced it. Well, I just

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always remember my grandma saying one thing of like, she's like, I know the life is harder

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here in Jamaica, but it's my home. Like it's what I know. And so I'm just curious if like,

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I don't know, technically. Yeah, I don't know if that's their sentiment. Their sentiment

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is usually just like New York really sucks and we really want to be like that. Okay, fair

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enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. I think too, there's like such a great sense of community

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there in Jamaica that they had, but we just don't have in the U.S. So I don't know if you

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noticed that, Kashawn, like Do you feel like there is more of a sense of community there

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in Guyana as well that like, Oh, absolutely. Yeah.  People  all know each other. So like

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if you lived in a village or town,  every single person that village or town knows everything

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about everybody else. You know, if a kid is being born, you know, if they're doing good

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in school or not, you know, if someone's fruit tree is bearing, you got to go over and get

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some for everyone else. Does it like everybody has  a tap on everybody else. And that's really

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nice. Like when I was watching my grandparents, walk around the neighborhood and people were

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saying hello and this and that. And they were striking up conversations. I see why they want

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to stay there because  everybody in the entire town is just a friend, which is really nice.

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And I have never experienced that here, especially growing up in New York. Like there's  millions

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of people that you engage with every day  and they all feel like strangers. Even people I

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went to class with, felt like strangers, which is, which is odd because like we're so packed

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on top of each other, but you just know  you don't connect in the same way. Yeah. That's

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interesting to hear that the similarities, because I found that to be true to be like, Your neighbor

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would be like, Oh, how's Mrs. Young doing this and that? like, yeah, so it's crazy. I do love

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that sense of community over there. Oh, I do. Yeah. I love being able to  have fun with my

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neighbors, go to community parties, cook for them is another great thing to do. But it's

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just real tough here. I don't know. Maybe it's the culture. Maybe it's because people are

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so independent here. I have no idea, but it's hard to break that barrier, especially with

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neighbors and community and stuff like that. So you kind of mentioned that your dad said

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the kind of typical like, when you know, when I was growing up, I had to like do all this

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and like our parents did similar things or said similar things.  Do you so do you have any

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like other funny stories about your parents kind of saying stereotypical immigrant parent

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things or doing stereotypical immigrant? Yeah, I, think  the funniest things that they would

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do to me was they would just tell me lies to stop me from doing things. So one thing would

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be  Let's say that when we went to the stores and you know how like they have the smart scanners

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that tell you like what the price of something is. You bring it over, you scan the barcode

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and they, um, it just tells you, this is $5 to 2 % off today. I would always cause I was

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a menace growing up. don't blame them at all. was destructive and annoying and all the things,

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but I would go around and I would just take my hands or things and just put them under

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the scanner and just take up space and just stop people from like, they're being in a line

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behind me. And I'm like scanning this thing, scanning that thing, trying to scan like an

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object or my phone. or putting like a collar under it to see how like the colors would change.

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So they would tell me,  if you use those lasers, they would inject lead into your body. And

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I was like, oh my God, I don't want lead in my body. And then I immediately stopped. And

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there's a million little things that they would do that were exactly like that.  And then when

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I got older, I realized, oh, they were BSing me the entire time.  Yes. Yes. Yes. That is

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so funny.  at least my mom. Yeah. feel like she told it. The moms.  It was the moms. Another

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one is you can't point at  tombstones or like graveyards because it's  a disrespect. Do you

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guys have that too?  I don't know that one. never heard that. That's one that  I know a

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Guyanese have it for sure. And my wife also has it. She's Vietnamese. Well, you're not

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supposed to point at them. You're supposed to either like do the politician like, hey, like

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that thing, or you're supposed to acknowledge it without like pointing. And I don't know

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why it is, but it was so common. across all of the different cultures that, like, whenever

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you see a graveyard, everyone's like, oh my God, don't even point your fingers in that

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direction, just face it opposite way. Interesting. I if it's like a respect thing or something.

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I don't know. I it's a respect thing. But I don't know why. I have no idea. Yeah, or some

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kind of superstitious thing. Yeah, that's interesting. There's plenty of superstitions. Yeah, there's

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so many. My dad is a Hindu and my mom is a Christian. So, like, there was the cultural difference

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between them. So the Hindu sides are the ones with the ridiculous superstition. So my dad's

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dad was a Hindi equivalent of a pastor. So he was a community leader. He would do prayers

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for people, show up and bless the homes and things like that. But there's a thing that

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they would do when you're a baby. Kind of like choosing the avatar where you would take the

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baby, you would have a certain set of objects in front of them, and then they would have

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affinities towards each object. And depending on what they would pick, with the pattern that

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shows up in their palm plus the lengths of their earlobes.  And what day it was,  you would

27:31 → 27:36
be able to predict their entire future just off of that one  little thing. So every single

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kid has these readings and mine was,  would, and they were also like reading a horoscope.

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So it would be so general. It's impossible for it to be wrong, but people would live and die

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by these things. So if someone told you like, oh, Like you're going to die one day from like

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a car. They don't drive. They don't drive anymore. They don't go on the street. was like, Oh,

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like be aware of the color red. They don't wear red for the rest of their life. They're never

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going to do it ever again.  So that was the, the, the funnest part of that was those crazy

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superstitions that would stick with people for their entire life.  Because there's a, like

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since Guyana is so  depopulated,  there's a very heavy influence of the native culture.

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like. people know more about Guyana for the native, uncontacted people who were in South

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America before the immigration. That culture is very relevant. So there's a lot of superstition,

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shamanism, people travel there to do drugs all the time. That culture of shamanism is still

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there and it bled into the Hinduism that's there. Cause like we're also very disconnected from

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India. Like nobody has actual Indian relatives. They all are Guyanese. So they made their own

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version of Hinduism that has some of the shamanism, some Christianity, some just random stuff that

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they decided to start doing. the Hinduism is parallel to the actual Indian Hinduism and

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has a lot of superstition in it. I find that so fascinating about the Caribbean, like all

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the countries in the Caribbean. It's like, yeah, it's like this interesting blend of different

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cultures because like we said, there are Chinese people, Indian people, all these people that

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came over as like part of colonialism and the aftermath of slavery and all that and it's

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so interesting how all those different cultures kind of blended together and created their

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own thing. So yeah, that's really fascinating. Another fun cultural tidbit, and this is probably

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my favorite thing, it didn't come up initially but now I'm remembering it,  every single person

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has a nickname. And that nickname will be used more than your actual name.  all of my relatives

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growing up,  I only ever knew them by their nickname. So every now and they'd be like,

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oh, like, like, did you check Harold's 401k statement? I'm like, Harold, who the heck is

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that? They're like, Uncle Chalkdust. I'm like, oh, Chalkdust, I know him. And they call him

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Uncle Chalkdust because he's dark skinned and ashy. So when he was in school, he got the

29:53 → 30:00
name Chalkdust and it never left. And people who are of note, family members, his own parents,

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call him Chalkdust. And I've only ever known him by that. But his real name is Harold. Yes.

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Yes, whether you like your nickname or not, Like it sticks with you. it's stuck. Yeah.

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Yeah, it's the Did you ever get a nickname? I figured not. I guess maybe not because you

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know, I never got one. Yeah. My name was unique enough. Like Keeshawn is like a weird name

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in Guyanese culture. So it unique enough that he just called me that. But like my dad's nickname

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is Lil'Bi because he was the smallest of all his brothers. There is, I do name Steel because

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he would just take things from people. He would just steal things from people. So called him

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Steel. Oh, watch out, Steel's coming.  But it's a community, so you have to be friends with

30:34 → 30:40
them still. So everyone just gets their own thing. it's, oh man, that's my favorite part

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of the culture is the hilarious nicknames. I mean, it's the same in Jamaica too. have, like,

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yeah, people have nicknames that they get from when they're like born or just like very little.

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And it's just like you said, it's just their name for the rest of their life. And people

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don't remember their real name until they like are at their funeral or something like, yeah,

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like. It's yeah, like I've asked my mom like, oh, what's like Fitzy's real name? And she's

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like, you know, we don't know. Yeah, she like has. Yeah. It's like people like in your own

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family, you like don't even know their real name. Yeah. Yeah, it's insane. Yeah. You don't.

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I don't know. Like because I made the mistake one time of like calling my mom at work and

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calling her by her nickname. Just I don't know why. And she got so mad at me because she was

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like, nobody at work knows me under that. Like, he's like, don't call. So. I won't even say

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it on here because she probably will get mad.  But like, yeah, so. I feel like that's a common

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cultural thread though, because like my best friend  is from Bangladesh  and they also have

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the same thing. They have a home name and then they have the actual name. So like his actual

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name is Imran, but his home name is Shagor. But you only ever use that if you're around

31:44 → 31:49
family or people of the culture, because I've only ever known him as Imran because I'm not

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Bangladeshi, I'm not Muslim. So like I never was introduced to him in that way. But it's

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like a parallel thing to the Caribbean culture and Jamaican culture as well. And so how does

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that like kind of being in Queens and having that proximity to a lot of Guyanese people

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and then sounds like you visited a few times like is there have you how would you identify

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yourself as like this Guyanese American or like do you feel really tied to your culture or

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like? No, I feel very loosely tied. My parents never really imparted culture onto us. they

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really because like we come from a household where there are like two religions to start

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off with. even in Guyana, those are way different tracks. Like if you were a Christian who spoke

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good English versus like a Hindu servant, like your life paths were way different. So when

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our parents were raising us, they always just said, it's up to you. Like we'll tell you about

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stuff. We'll tell you stories. We'll introduce you to the religions and the culture, but it's

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up to your choice of what you want to do. And like for a long time, like I wasn't religious

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for a long time. I didn't identify as Guyanese. So I didn't really  develop that, that thread

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to it, which I should have done more. Like it is, it is where I come from, but  not a strong

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connection to it at all. Interesting, yeah, I guess that's interesting dynamic too with

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the different religion. Yeah, yeah. Because like if you are a Christian, you had priority

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placement in schools and jobs and things like that.  So you just tended to have gaps in wealth.

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So like my mom's family was far wealthier than my dad's family, but they ended up together

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anyway. So like when they came over, they didn't want to repeat that because like you could

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feel the prejudice. And my dad talks about it lot because my mom's more like, oh, I don't

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know what he's talking about because she was on the positive side of it. But my dad was

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like, no, there are very high hurdles that you have to jump through if you were the wrong

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religion or the wrong skin color or the wrong even association. You went to the wrong school.

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You went to not a British school, derived school, but you went to a native school. That was a

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big deal. Has your relationship with whether you identify as Guyanese-American or how closely

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tied you feel to Guyana? has that changed at all over time? Like have you found as you got

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older that you were like, oh, I'm more interested in knowing more or being...  Yeah, I would

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say so. Yeah. As I got older, I just became interested in  different cultures and then

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me being from one where I access to the people and  the community and all that kind of stuff

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just made me want to learn more about it. So that's where the interest came from.  I don't

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know if I identify anymore as Guyanese. Like when I introduced myself, I never mentioned

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my ethnicity or anything like that. Only if people ask, then I bring it up. And even when

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they do, I'm like, oh, I'm American, but my parents are Guyanese. Because I can't really

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represent the culture. So I don't like saying that I am part of the culture. So that's usually

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how I navigate it. But I am learning a lot more, especially from my dad as he's getting older.

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So that's been my thing. I would say this. I kind of say the same thing. People ask me,

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I'm like, yeah, my parents are Jamaican. Because, we grew up here. And people ask me, like, how

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come you don't have an accent? And I'm like, I mean, I grew up here. Like, I can understand

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the Jamaican patois, but I don't. I don't speak it so, and how I actually found out Kishan

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was even Guyanese, I you saw my Jamaican flag in the background in  one of our meetings and

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so then that kind of prompted me to be like, hey, yeah. Because it's so rare for me to find

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other people. like, I found you. Like, there's another one.  That's funny. Well, I have a

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bit of a random question because like I said, I like to kind of do like some light research.

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I don't want to know too much. I like to learn from the guests. So but I did some light research

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of Guyana and I found out that very recently, or a few years ago, they found oil nearby,

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Guyana, or something like that. so Guyana is gearing up to become quite a bit richer pretty

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soon. And they have a whole deal with ExxonMobil, I think it is, and all of this stuff. So I

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guess my question was, have you heard about this? I don't know if you have any thoughts

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about how this might change the country and all of that. This has been the thing. that

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people have been talking about for the last two or three years at this point. And every

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time I go back home, my dad is constantly watching Guyana news, which is people on YouTube.  And

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that's the only thing they're talking about  is  this Exxon deal.  I don't know how well

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it's going to go. The position that the government took is that they want to kind of socialize

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it. So it is a deal with Exxon, but the money goes into the Guyanese government and they're

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going to spend that in the community. So they're touting like higher pensions and this and that.

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and whatever party's in power is going to want to use the money to stay in power. And I don't

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know if it's a good thing. I am afraid knowing my people that they would fall into the Dutch

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disease trap where the whole economy just becomes about oil. And then you forget all the other

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things because like Guyana, they export bauxite and timber and they do mining and gold and

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things like that. That's all going to go away once oil like covers everything because there's

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not no one lives there. Like there's not enough people to manage every industry. So I'm afraid

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that it turns into Dutch oil disease. I'm happy that they have a lot of the money coming in.

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I don't think they're going to spend the money well. Yeah, unfortunately, that's, you know,

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just  in other cases that we've seen, obviously, with like Venezuela, even Russia and like all

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these other countries that are so rich in oil. Yeah, you know, all these other issues pop

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up and it's just corrupts the government sometimes.  that's a big thing because in Guyana there's

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a a lot of strife between the ethnic classes. So the vast majority of the population is African

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and they have their own Caribbean African culture. And then there are the West Indians that are

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maybe 10 or 20 % of the population and they vie for political power in very violent ways.

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there were periods of time where there was assassinations and things going on. There's periods of times

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where they would target ethnic groups for a specific removal from political office or bar

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them from going to schools and things like that. that... areas really heated and now you just

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throw oil into it. So now all of that is raised to times 10 and like that's what's happening

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right now. So people are sorting out who gets the money, who gets the rights to the land,

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who gets to negotiate with Exxon, who gets to spend the money. So I would say in this short

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term, it's more conflict, more like hate is being generated between the groups. I'm hoping

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that they get over it because like, know, they've been living there for 200 years. So hopefully

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you guys figure out how to find love in that. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Just one other quick note

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too, that I'd from what I was reading and seeing is that Guyana is on the coast, or least part

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of it is on the coast. And  it's also an environmental issue as well, with obviously with oil  causing

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a lot of issues with the environment and Guyana being  heavily affected more so than a lot

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of other inland countries by environmental factors. Are you also kind of looking against your own

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interests? So yeah, a lot  there. I don't think people are considering that though,  In Guyana,

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they're so poor that whether or not the coastline floods a bit more is like, whatever, I'll move

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my still house like 10 feet back, whatever. So people aren't concerned about that. They're

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mostly just concerned about like, is this going to mean that I can't send my kids to schools

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anymore because the wrong people are in power? Is this like, are all the sugar cane farms

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going to go down? Because like that's where my pension comes from. Like those are the concerns

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that people have. And then also like, hey, like I heard you guys are going to do a new basic

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income. Like, can I get some?  That's another factor of it. So when you go abroad and visit

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your family members, do they make fun of your Americanness or do they embrace you as Chinese?

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I am  probably the most integrated into American culture.  Me and my sister are. So when we

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go back, we're getting the hit of the accents, the people, the this and that. Even my own

39:24 → 39:28
cousins and family members. They're a lot less, I'm using the word integrated, but like they

39:28 → 39:32
still have their accent. They still know the culture. They still do all these things. So

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when I go back, I feel like a stranger. Like I also don't look very Guyanese. I look a lot

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different than a lot of other people in Guyana cause I'm very light skinned. My sister isn't.

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So  like  I look different. I talk completely different. I have the American white collar

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business accent. So when they hear that, they go, Oh, look, the big shot is coming. So I

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get that a lot.  But yeah, there's a huge difference in the way I get treated because I just feel

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like a stranger to the culture. That's kind of why we  started this podcast because it's

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like you don't fit in over there like in your parents country, but then sometimes in the

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US you can feel like your people don't always see you as like, but like what are you? So

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that's where we kind of the name comes from culture between is like you're in this in between

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limbo state where I think that's probably where I got a lot of my  independence from. like,

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like politically, I lean very libertarian because I'm like, just do it yourself. It's always

40:20 → 40:24
your fault. Like you can solve this, but it's because I never fit into any community. Like

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in the Guyanese community, I was always the strangest one. And then in all of the other

40:29 → 40:35
cultures, I'm Guyanese, which is the strangest thing. So there's no way for you to fit into

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anything.  And I just kind of went, well, you know what? I'm on my own then. That's probably

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where I developed that  need to. be completely independent no matter what. Yeah, I feel like

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that's a good way. That's what I kind of had to learn to be. Because when I used to get

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asked, where are you? Where are you from? And I used to not understand why people would ask

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me this question. And I realized, OK, it's because of how you look and the lungs. like, just got

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to... Yeah. I never knew why people would ask me that. Yeah, I remember thinking as a kid,

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they're like, oh, where are you from? I'd be like, oh, I'm from Queens. They're like, no,

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no, where are you from? I'm like, oh, that's a good Why do you care about my parents? You're

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talking to me. Yeah, it used to bother me a lot. People asked me that initially, but I

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know they're just curious. I just realized that. so I think, I don't know, when you're from,

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I think, a family or a background that like Chinese Jamaican, all these Indian Jamaicans,

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all these kind of things, so hearing you talk about all these things, like, oh, OK, cool,

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cool, cool. But like for people who maybe aren't around that, it's a little bit different, I

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guess. So people I think are just curious. And so I've just learned to embrace it and know,

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OK, this is what I am because people are just going to base you off of what they think you

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look like or what they can relate you to. And so, yeah. I have a question. that I was thinking

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about the whole time.  What does the food look like for Chinese Jamaican? Like, what is that

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food? So we have like a few restaurants here near where we grew up in Miami that are like

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Chinese Jamaican restaurants, but they don't really fuse the two like cuisines. They kind

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of just like they serve Chinese food and they serve Jamaican food. Like it's like they just

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served both of them. I will say like the Chinese food that they serve tends to be more like

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how to describe it, but like I don't know it tends to kind of have like more like I guess

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a Jamaican flavoring to it. I'm imagining like Chinese food like jerk sauce like that's  my

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god. Yeah like I said it's they don't really like fuse it but they do kind of make like

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the Chinese food with Jamaican ingredients I feel like because I was like I use I always

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get this fried rice from this Jamaican Chinese restaurant that we go to and it's definitely

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darker and like has more of a kicked to it than like regular fried rice you would get from

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a normal Chinese store, I feel like. So,  yeah, so it's like, it's definitely like around,

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but they tend to just kind of serve Chinese food and serve Jamaican food and like, they

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don't really fuse them together, which is kind of sad. I wish they would actually. The reason

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I was so curious is when my wife and I were dating, my parents had no idea. So I'm not

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very, I don't share a lot with my family. So like, they really have no idea what's happening

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with me.  So all of a sudden out of nowhere, I go, Hey, I have a girlfriend. We've been

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dating for two years and  I want you to meet her.  And they go, okay. And they're expecting

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like, okay, maybe it's a Hispanic girl. Maybe it's a guy in these person. Maybe it's an Indian.

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Cause like I was connected very deeply in like the bank of America tech area. So like I very

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open when I moved to Jersey, uh, there was lots of Indians around me. like, maybe it's an Indian

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and they were completely fine with all of that.  And  when I brought her over, she was Vietnamese.

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And the first thing my mom did was like, Oh, okay. Like she's Vietnamese, she pulls me aside

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and she leans in really close and goes, what does she eat? And she had  no idea, like zero

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idea what  Vietnamese food was. So I was really curious, like, since you guys are Chinese

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and Jamaican, how did the food come together? Cause like they are not compatible in Guyana.

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Yeah, I guess that's true. But they are kind of. done separately. And we were like a few

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generations back with the Chinese Jamaican. I think the Chinese came over as indentured

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servants.  So, yeah, I'm not sure actually how much that kind of melted. That's a good question.

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I should ask my I don't know. I feel like I should know that better, to be honest. That's

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food for thought. Yeah.  One interesting place, which is actually my favorite dessert, where

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Asian and Guyanese or West Indian culture mixed together. There is a  a red bean cake, kind

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of like a moon cake that we call Chinese cake,  which is  not a very nice term to use. It's

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what we call it. It's like this big, it's yellow, has a red dot on the top and it's just red

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bean paste and it's so delicious. But it came from Chinese culture, but it's such a staple

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in Guyanese households that it's the thing you buy first when you go to a pastry shop and

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then other things. So like that was one where it blended really well. Interesting. Yeah,

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you even bring in the name of the thing. it's funny because you said, yeah, it's not really

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like PC. I noticed that like there at least in Jamaican culture, they're very like they

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would just call it like they have they call people like tiny man and all that. like they

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call you like that. Yeah. So that's like, but it's not an offensive thing. Whereas like maybe

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in the US it might seem like.  But it's like, yeah, but it's not meant to like. have any

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malice behind it. terms of endearment, like there's a close family member, his name is

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Blackie, because he's the darkest guy that they know. My grandfather on my mom's side, his

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name is Whitey because his mom was from Portugal. So like, they don't care. They're like, it

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is what it is. He's Whitey. I love it. I love the literalness. Yeah. Yeah. You guys don't

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eat oxtail or anything by any chance, do you? Or is that a big... No. It's available, but

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it's just something that the West Indians don't eat. OK, because, you know, the Hinduism and

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the cow, you're not allowed to eat beef at all. So that's a that's the one that I that was

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taken out. Gotcha. That makes sense. That makes sense. Oxdale is Alyssa's favorite. I know.

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I just was curious. Yeah, I try to get like tail, tongue, hoof, brain, heart. Like whenever

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I go to exotic restaurants, I want the exotic meat. So I try to get those wherever I go.

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So next time I'm at a spot, I'm going to get Oxdale. Yes, that or curry goat. Those  are

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really good. We don't get a lot of goat here in the US for some reason, but it's good. You

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have to know how to cook it, because to make goat curry,  have  to... That's  right.  You

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have to cook it for hours, like hours and hours and hours, and you're just boiling it in curry

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the whole time. And people don't have time for that, so they don't make it. Yeah. And the

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curry, I don't know if... I guess I'm curious because you guys have an Indian influence,

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but our curry is more like a... It's like a yellowish... I don't know how to describe it.

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less kind of a different type of curry, I feel like, than maybe... Yeah, it's definitely not

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as thick. So like the curry is very thing inside of it oriented. So whether it's...  I don't

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know what the names in English terms are, but there's things like duff or chickpeas or chana

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or whatever you want to call it. That's the prime thing you're eating in the curry. And

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then the  sauce, the curry liquid around it is so much thinner than like Indian curry.

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And yeah, don't know that's a big difference. It's also darker. And it's not spicy. people

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think of curry to blow your brains out spiciness. because Guyana is tropical, you can't grow

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exotic spices there. So there's just not a lot available. they're just not spicy. Does Guyana

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have like a dialect? Because we, you Jamaican Patois, do you have a name for the language?

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No, I don't think there is a name for the language. We just call it the Guyanese accent or we call

47:28 → 47:33
it Caribbean or whatever we call it. Yeah, it sounds similar to patois, but if you're a careful

47:33 → 47:35
listener, can notice the differences. Yeah, and technically, I mean, I don't know, there's

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been a debate on like, is patois a language or not? I say no, I think it's a dialect, but

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some people would argue... Because like, you use the same words as English. But just used

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with different contexts. Yes, yes, for sure. You want to get into the fun questions, Yeah,

47:49 → 47:53
yeah, and just like a little comment on that. Yeah, I agree too about the language. I feel

47:53 → 47:58
very strongly about this because...  I don't know, bothers me when people are like, oh,

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it's a language. Like, no.  And we do have certain words. Like, there are different words. Like,

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there are certain words that are, that they say that obviously are not  used anywhere else.

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yeah, it's not, a Yeah, one that comes to mind immediately is like, by. Like to say boy or

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gal for girl. It's spelled differently, it's said differently. There's like,  also like

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all the family member names and things like that. The way you reference them, it's not

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words that are... or words in English, but they mean the same thing and they sound similar.

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Or they just phrase words differently. I don't know, in past, they don't say the the sound,

48:34 → 48:41
say past the Yeah, they also. Or they say me a lot instead of I did this. You know what

48:41 → 48:47
I mean? That kind of stuff. Yeah, so that's where the little nuances are. Yeah, like, spread

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the bed instead of me.  Yeah, certain little phrases. There's things I've learned when I

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went to college. Like, cut the lights out. Yeah, for sure.  There's things my husband has pointed

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out. He's like, you mean make the bed? I was like, what?  My mom always said spread. He

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spread stuff on a sandwich. was like, I don't know. This is what I've learned. I don't know.

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I don't think about  it. yeah, certain things. There are also parts of the language that I

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didn't realize how deep the accent went. So like one thing that took me forever  to get

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over  is saying three. Cause I say tree every time, every now and you'll hear me in some

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of our  meetings where I'll say  tree or this or tree or that. Like I'm dropping a lot of

49:28 → 49:34
the H's  and it's just, it's subconscious. Another thing I couldn't get was calendar because the

49:34 → 49:38
way you say it is calendar. Like you're like, oh, go mark the calendar. And like you drop

49:38 → 49:42
so many syllables that every now and then it just comes out. like, oh man,  it just slipped

49:42 → 49:46
out. you go. Yeah. My word is. I don't know if you do this too, Alyssa, like condense.

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I can't say condense. It's like always like condensed milk. yeah. Oh, yes. Condense. They

49:52 → 49:57
do the same thing. Yeah. I said that wrong for so many years. But you don't realize it's wrong,

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I guess, until somebody like points it out. Yeah, and nobody ever points it out because

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you're either talking to someone who's making the same mistake or they're being nice and

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they're like, ah, it's okay.  Yeah, exactly. But like when you don't have an accent, at

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least I've had friends call me out, but my mom says that no one's to say anything. like it's

50:11 → 50:14
like, why do you pronounce it like that? So yeah, I totally get it. That's funny. It's

50:14 → 50:19
cool to see the similarities  between the two. All right. OK, yeah. So let's go to the fun

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questions now. We already talked. quite a bit about food. that's usually one of our fun questions,

50:24 → 50:28
but we've already kind of covered that. food guy, man. Yeah, we've covered that topic, which

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is  great. So my first question for the fun part, and this has been a little bit controversial.

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Some people have not been able to really come up with a great answer for it, but I still

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love this question and I want to know, do you happen to have a favorite Guyanese expression

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or like saying?  One that I like is called vexed, like when they say like, she is vexed. Like

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that means that the person is not smithing with you. Like they're upset with you, but they

51:00 → 51:06
still want to engage with you, but they're upset. She's vexed. Like that was one that is so good

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because it describes something that I don't have a parallel for in English. Yeah. That's,

51:11 → 51:15
yeah, that's awesome. I do like that. That's a good one. Yeah. We use that too. Yeah. Yeah.

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That is a great word. The Sean Paul song is Right. It's popping in my head right now. is

51:21 → 51:27
it? Don't vex with me. Yeah, there you go. Most people don't know what he's saying in the song.

51:27 → 51:33
Right. But like, Oh, that was another strange thing. Like, I know what Sean Paul's saying.

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Yeah.  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think that's... Yeah, when you know like what Sean Paul's saying

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or like... Rihanna actually, like in Barbados, it's not like Jamaica and I think like Guyana.

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Like they don't actually really have like... They have an accent, but not like a dialect

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really, like... They don't have the same words like how we do in Jamaica and stuff. But Rihanna

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will sing things in Potwa sometimes. So like work, her song Work, people are always like,

51:57 → 52:01
I don't understand anything in that song. And I'm like, I actually understand most of it.

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When you bring up Work as an example, that didn't even register because I'm like, that's such

52:07 → 52:11
an easy song to understand. exactly. No, but I remember when it came out and I was with

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some friends, they were like, I only understand Work. I don't know, but I love the song. They

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were like, I just love this song, I don't understand anything she's saying. I guess it's things

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like that you take for granted because you're not even thinking about processing. It's just

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like, okay, I get it. I understand what she's saying. Good, good. I love that. So can you

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tell us now, do you have a happy place in Guyana when you visit? Like a place that you really

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enjoy or makes you feel good when you go there? Oh yeah, it's definitely my grandparents' because

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they live in the... country, the whole thing's a country, but  like they live in the outback

52:48 → 52:53
area where you need to go on a dirt road through trees and stuff. But then they have this outcropping

52:53 → 52:57
that's a town. So you have a cutout in the middle of the jungle. That's where they live. And

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it's just like farms and plants and things like that. You can walk around the neighborhood.

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There's not a lot of traffic. Everybody knows each other. It's just the opposite of what

53:05 → 53:10
it is here. And it's so calming to be there because like everybody's slower. They talk

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calmer. There's no struggles or existential like, oh my God, if we don't deliver this tomorrow,

53:15 → 53:20
X company is going to, it's all just like chill, just like calm down. You'll be fine. Like it's

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very, very nice. So that's my, my happy place there. All right. And is there anything that

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you do or have done in Guyana that you wouldn't do in the U S I wouldn't say so. Like there's

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nothing there that you can get or need to get done that doesn't get done here. Like even

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the West Indians when they get saris created, like they get them imported for either from

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India or from  New Jersey, which is like the best place to get saris if you didn't know

53:47 → 53:54
that. The Mecca of creating saris besides India is New Jersey because it's specifically New

53:54 → 53:59
Brunswick, New Jersey, because that for some reason is where all of the Indians are. They

53:59 → 54:05
just took over that town and they have like traditional shops that source from India and

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people from New York, people from Pennsylvania, people from... Florida, they make special requests

54:09 → 54:15
to that location to get their stuff done.  All right. Okay. So to wrap  up, I just like to

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ask about maybe something you sort of dislike and then something that you absolutely love

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about your, your parents' cultures.  The thing that I dislike the most is that they are willing

54:28 → 54:34
to lie to save face.  So like if so, like if there's a family problem going on and things

54:34 → 54:38
are happening. And then someone goes like, Hey, are you okay? Are you guys doing good? It'll

54:38 → 54:41
immediately be like, it's a lie. And then when I would go, Hey, like, why are we lying to

54:41 → 54:45
people? They're like, you never let people know things are wrong. And like, I just don't like

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that at all. Cause like, it's not the way I live my life personally. So like, that's a

54:49 → 54:53
part of the culture where you have to keep secrets. You have to save face. have to look proper.

54:54 → 55:00
I hate that so much. Gotcha. That's funny. Yeah. But, impressions are having a certain impression

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or persona to people I think is very important. I get that. Yeah. super, super important.

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Something I love.  I love the comedy that happens. So people are very open to just harshly joking

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at each other, like really, really, really going at each other, but it's all in jest and it's

55:19 → 55:23
all in good fun. So that was actually a conflict that I had with my wife when we first got married.

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As she was getting introduced into the culture, she didn't realize that we shit talk. I don't

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know if I can curse, but like we-  Yeah, we shit talk the heck out of each other insanely

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and I never noticed how bad it was until she had to pull me aside one day and be like, hey,

55:37 → 55:40
why are your parents so mean to me? And like, why are you being mean to me? I'm like, are

55:40 → 55:44
we not being mean? We're joking with you because we love you. And she's like, it doesn't come

55:44 → 55:49
across as that. But when you're in the culture, like it's just nagging on each other over and

55:49 → 55:53
over again. It's just so fun. I love doing it. And like all my friends did it growing up.

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My family members. When I call my grandma, she should talk the shit out of me. It's great.

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I love it. Like that's that's my favorite part, because it's brutally honest. You can be truthful

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with somebody and that's why it's funny. like it's so great. And that's my favorite part.

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I will say I do appreciate Caribbean's like brutal honesty. Like I'm a little bit of sensitive,

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but like, you know, or that you stand with them, which is is there's some novelty to that. And

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like, yeah, and like they just. I shared a video with Kashawn, where the mom is berating the

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girl, you put something my weight. They just speak their mind. If they think you got fat

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or they think you... If they're not happy with you, where's your boyfriend or where's your

56:36 → 56:42
significant other? They just call you out on it. They'll call you out. And I love the honesty.

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Especially when it comes to weight. That's always concern. Did you go, you got fat or you got

56:46 → 56:51
really skinny? Maybe you should eat. Like it's never satisfied no matter what you do. And

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then the spouse like, where's the girl? Where is the guy? What did I do? Have you brought

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them? Why didn't you introduce me? Like all those things. Because they want to expand the

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family. That's what they want to do. That's why they start to act to it. Yeah, they definitely

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have expectations and they're not afraid to let you know when you don't meet them. yeah.

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Oh, I know we're almost that time. No, no, you're fine. When we went back to New York, maybe

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like two or three weeks ago, I brought my wife to a Guyanese wedding. in the middle of Little

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Guy Hanna. And just the seeing her take it all in. So there are a couple like notable events

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that she pointed out. One was two guys came up to the bride and groom and like gave them

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a card. Like, you give them a card, has a thing in it and the money's inside and like, that's

57:33 → 57:38
your gift to them. But they were wearing t-shirts and she goes, why are those guys wearing Ed

57:38 → 57:42
Hardy t-shirts? And then my sister looks over and goes, those are their best t-shirts. And

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she wasn't lying. Did she?  Like they there's so little need to have a suit. There's so little

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need to have dress clothes all this and that they just don't have it So when it's time to

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go to this wedding, they were the only ones wearing t-shirts. Oh, you know, this is my

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favorite t-shirt I'm gonna wear that one and like that's what they wore  Everybody was blinged

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out top to bottom like like you would see three rings on each finger like all the old Guyanese

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men wore every ounce of jewelry that they had to show up that was hilarious it's like I was

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at like a BT award or something, everyone's like crazy.  The food was also really interesting.

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Like she went over and it's like all duck curry and doll purée and like everything that you

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could possibly imagine. And she was like, all right, this is the best part. She was eating

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that the whole time. And just watching her react to the culture, it was a continuous face of

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shock and awe, which was great. That's awesome. We're going to wrap up, but I actually just

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made me think of something. Has she assimilated, has your wife assimilated very well in the

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Guyanese culture and has your family been very welcoming? Yes and no. So she  has not assimilated

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at all. So like she doesn't get the culture. She kind of understands it. She tries her best

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to participate in it, but it's just so different from what she's used to. The only thing she

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can,  she vibes on with my parents is the immigrant experience of like the crazy family members

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and the drama and the da da da. But the culture itself is not meshing. And it's probably a

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symptom of like the Asian food doesn't mix with the Guyanese food. that probably extends to

59:08 → 59:13
the culture. So that's where she's struggling. And my dad was super welcoming. Like he doesn't

59:13 → 59:18
care if he's old as heck. He had me when he was  like 40 or something.  he's at a point

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where like  anything that happens, doesn't matter. And my mom was not as welcoming because like

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in the culture, your son is so important  in Guyanese culture that me going and marrying

59:30 → 59:36
somebody now who is not Guyanese was not good. So me having a Vietnamese spouse was a big

59:36 → 59:41
problem and they recently got over it, but for a good year, they were not on good terms. And

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like that was the no and that yes and no answer. Yeah. Yeah. I hope you don't mind me asking

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if that's not too personal. I was just curious, know. My mom literally asked the question,

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like, what does she eat? It was such a different culture that she didn't know what she ate.

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I'm like, food, she eats food. Like whatever you have, she'll eat it. Like it's not having

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a deal.

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Thank you so much to Kashawn for taking the time to interview with us today.  It was so

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interesting to hear about how his Guyanese culture relates so much to the Jamaican culture that

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Brianne and I are so familiar with.  And thank you listeners for tuning in for another episode.

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As a new podcast, we would really appreciate it if you left us a review on your podcast

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directory of choice,  as it helps us spread the word and share the stories of our guests.

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Thanks for tuning in and catch you next time.